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Is Having Guests More Stressful for Women?

The Talmud states that it is more difficult for women to enjoy her guests. Six explanations for this enigmatic Talmudic observation

40 min

Class Summary:

Is Having Guests More Stressful for Women?- The Talmud states that it is more difficult for women to enjoy her guests. Six explanations for this enigmatic Talmudic observation

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  • DK

    Dina Kushnir -1 year ago

    BH

    i learned this lesson today . 
    dedicated in a 

    loving memory of Rusya bat Daniel

    our dear mother . 
    she loved to host abd having guests. 
    may her memory be of a Blessing. 
    Sincerely,

    Kushnir's  family.

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  • A

    Avrohom -6 years ago

    Women more tuned in to guests

     I heard the class "How men and women deal with guests". The Rov said over the mazritcher Magid that a women is more tuned into the individual guests. I am trying to understand how we learn this from the discussion of "Kemach" or "soiles"

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    • Anonymous -6 years ago

      we learn it from the expression of chazal, עיניה צרה באורחין,
       
      her eye is narrow, narrows in on the guests

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    • RY

      Rabbi YY -6 years ago

      w​e learn it from the expression of chazalעיניה צרה באורחין, her eye is narrow, narrow in on the guests
       

       

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      • A

        Avrohom -6 years ago

        I sincerely appreciate your answer that the "LOshon" Tzoro" means tuned in. However I did not understand how Reb Yitzchok derived this from the  difference between "Kemach" and "soiles". Especially the way the regular "Rashi" learns it that she said "Kemach". However when I reviewed  it I realized that can only be said if she wanted "Soiles". Is this assumption correct?

        Nevertheless this Pshat gave me a better understanding of my wife and I sincerely appreciate your Shiurim. I also am moved by the fact that you answered my email. Hashem should give you the strength to continue your "Avodas Hakodesh"

         

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  • LE

    LEIVY EDERY -11 years ago

    MUY BUENO
    MUY BUENO

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  • EW

    Eduardo Weisz -12 years ago

    HAREDI AND THE HALACHA
    I believe there is trouble in Israel and that things will get worse. The women apartheid in Israel is not a matter of Halacha - it is a matter of Hidur Mistva. In short, it is comparable to a Corban Ola that G-d did not ask for. People should take a look at Yrmiahu in order to understand this issue ....



    More then ever, it is being shown that the term Haredi comes from the Tanach (Herda, on of the camping places in the desert where Bnei Israel was the victon of a plage)  instead of the sefer ha haredim.





    In short, when irat the neighbouhood rav takes the place of Irat Shamaim, Jewish people are in trouble. Damn Haredim! 

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  • ESE

    Esther Sarah Evans -12 years ago

    ב"ה b"H inyan: sounds of Shabbos






     


    b"H

    additional comment - a couple of years later -

    Best heard by a blind man are the sounds of silence - e.g. by Hose Feliciano, who wrote "Listen to the Rain" that went through my head often this past Erev Shabbos in the rain, and then somebody just this Erev Shabbos had sent me an e-mail to draw my attention to a clip on You Tube - a clip called "The Sounds of Shabbos". If you print that in just as I have written on your browser, you will get it - and enjoy what is not what they call it - a Jewish parody on "The Sounds of Silence", but something quite beautiful - and catchy. You'll find yourself replaying it and singing it too. Now there is a problem perhaps with the line "Reform, Conservative or Orthodox" - for various reasons, including the fact that this still excludes a Sach' Yidden with no official "affiliation".  However, it is a starting point, and not a bad one at all.

    Another starting point might be this:

    As the Rebbe himself once pointed out, the difference between the gematria of Moshe and that of Moshiach is thirteen, which equals Echad. It is necessary for this to be internalized from below, and that is why the process takes centuries. I found it also interesting that the gematria of Slichah is one hundred and thirteen, and it is just that - HaShem's PARDON to Moshe Rabeinu - that would be necessary for HaShem to send him here to Eretz Yisrael and Yerushalayim - RIGHT NOW - to help prepare us for the final redemption, speed up the process a lot. If you take a look at Simon Jacobson's Wort called "The Stutterer" for this Parsha, you will read more about Moshe Rabeinu and the quality of his silence - his total caring for our people.

    Shavua tov. Kol tov.

    Esther Sarah and Halakha (my kitty)

     

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  • R

    Reuven -12 years ago

    Lushi
    Once again thank you for the intriguing and thought provoking session! This challenging Gemora has been difficult for many.Perhaps Avrohom"s approach reflects the prototypical male concept of inviting and entertaining guests.Avrohom comes home and says to Sarah lushi ( al tikrei lushi elah LET" SEE!) ;men generally do not involve in planning for guests,so he may at times spring on his wife -I invited a few people over- if it works out fine if not fine also..so therefore lushi kemach ..use kemach its impromtu  lets see all you knead to do is lushi keamch....the wife for her part doesnt operate that way she prefers "solet" - you cant just spring guests ans say lushi -lets see- she must prepare methodically.So perhaps they really both want guests but the approach and style is different..one is more impulsive the other reflective...in any case we should all be zoche to hachnasat orchim in a manner that will avail us of ailu devorim she ain lohem shiur! thank u

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  • DB

    Dovid Benveniste,Tsfat -12 years ago

    Generalization
    Bs"d

    The fact that you are"generalizing" when giving over this shiur,and it brings such "nachas"... attest to the veracity of the Maggid's view.

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  • A

    assaraf -12 years ago

    thanks
    verry nice

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  • A

    Admin -13 years ago

    to the last comment
    of course, it was 2009

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  • TD

    the date -13 years ago

    it says November for the date?

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  • ח

    חיים -13 years ago

    Shiur
    B''H

    Very nice Shiurim.

    All the best.
    Chaim
    Writing from Cordoba - Argentina.

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  • KT

    Kayo, Tokyo -13 years ago

    Question about Sarah
    Baruch HaShem

    Says the Baal Shem Tov, Torah is stating the extrodinality of Sarah. Under the nomal circomstances, women are narrow toward guests.
    So Sarah had more men like tendency, not meticulous toward the needs of guests like other women?

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  • M

    mordi -14 years ago

    usual suspects
    Your essay hits on natural human nature and its frailties. Jealousy, power, status and whatever else denies the "Love thy neighbour as yourself " dictate plays over and over again in the Chumash, and throughout Jewish history since. Why should we expect change in this ? Very few people, Jewish or not, are satisfied for very long. The march of history is a double edged sword. When/where has democracy provided agreement? Implicitly it demands opposition, and the opposition is never satisfied until it gets power. It's the dog chasing its tail.
    Sorry if this is pessimistic. But isn't it a reality ? Some Israelis want peace by giving up strategic terrain.And the paper the peace is signed on, what v becomes of it in later generations. And without peace, what are the chances of living without fear and leaving Israel on account of this situation ?
    I'll apologize again for the pessimism/reality.

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  • MR

    Meir R -14 years ago

    Don't Give Up
    terrific article y.y keep writing short essays with current political implications. I just came off of midnight live ambush. The Arabs have been pentrating our borders and stealing cars. you can imagine what's next G-d forbid.

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  • S

    Shumel -14 years ago

    1948?
    Very nice article, he usually writes nicely, I dispute one part of his article, which does NOT take away from his main point, its just a technical point......"The third age of sovereignty began in 1948, and already Israeli society is dangerously fragmented. The democratic process alone does not guarantee the existence of the body politic; it needs also some shared culture and identity—a shared sense of purpose and destiny.". The whole premise of zionism b'chlal & the medina b'frat was predicated on haskala & merida in HKB'H & oif tzu raysen yiddishkeit, R'Chaim Brisker said, "nisht, zay vill ah medina uhn grada gait zay upshmadden yidden, NUHR vahyl zay vill upshmaden yidden, villen zay ah medina oif ah haicha timptzeh tzu dem..."

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  • EE

    Esther Evans -14 years ago

    A time to fight
    Sorry to say, many of us would probably reply to the title of this essay -
    "You've got it wrong, Rabbi. It's not "in-fighting", it's "fighting is in".

    The cat for one is still fighting as long as there are Baraks out there doing
    the non-Torah thing. The only way the cat would cede there, is if that individual
    or those individuals would do big time Tshuva, apologize and set his path/their
    paths right. To tolerate their tyranny meanwhile is to stand by doing nothing,
    while the blood of our brothers (and maybe our own) is shed - whether literally
    or in the form of their being robbed of their rights (Hesder Yeshiva boys from
    Har Bracha) and/or property.

    As Rabbi Moshe Stern once said, though, in the same vein as Rabbi Jacobson
    here, "If only some of our politicians would just have the guts to admit they were/are
    wrong."

    Ya, but you see this is the problem with our slavery to our own ego - the most
    dangerous form of Avodah zarah, and this is being encouraged more and more,
    because it is seemingly not as concrete as the old form of idol worship, and thus
    - just like anti-Semitism clothed as anti-Zionism - slides comfortably into the state
    of being "socially acceptable", because nobody wants to step on anybody's toes
    by calling an ace an ace and a spade a spade.

    "Yelley belly green guts" we used to scream in grade school. Oh for some of that
    good old baseball bat frankness. Batter up, boys. Let's play ball - a straight game,
    please, and even if the batter slugs that spinner right back into the pitcher's guts.
    Oy vey is mir, but how good it is, and how straight forward. No hard feelings, and
    after five minutes or so the pitcher can stand up straight again and be proud of his stomach muscles. These, davka these have to be trained.

    Sorry for getting so crude, but sometimes we have to get back to basics - blue
    and black eyes - that kind of thing to keep the game healthy.

    We are so lacking in courage, and that is how our faith goes bad, how the Biedermann
    und der Brandstifter scenario becomes commonplace (wants to be a good bourgeois,
    invites an arsonist in, although he knows very well, what the arsonist is going to do, but
    he just has to do the "camp" thing of inviting this criminal into his place). So we smile
    at Obama, smile at the UN, the EU and Hamas and Fatah and co., and feel this is very
    much the "in" thing to do, meanwhile in-fighting, but the real fight in which fighting is in
    is to call things and people what they are and fight them accordingly, when Torah dictates it and when our own conscience screams at us to do so.

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  • D

    Dovid -14 years ago

    Rashi's commentary is most apt
    Rashi's commentary is most apt: When he sees the sina, the hatred, as *justifying* the shibud, the slavery. One leads to-and is a result of- the other.



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  • A

    Alex -14 years ago

    Moses
    The Bible, by way of the story of the Egyptian beating on a Hebrew and Moses looking "this way and that", is picking up on a theme that permeates the length of the Biblical narrative. Its about standing up for what's right, even when one is alone. It is about character.



    Moses was confronted by a scene that violated his sense of values. For the first time in his life, the question of what action to take is put in front of him, since the Bible reports that no one was around to respond to the plight of the Hebrew man. He felt compelled to act, almost reflexively.



    From Abraham on, the Bible depicts stories that put the "hero" in a position of action that is appropriately responsive to the situation.

    And that is what the Torah was created for, to instruct us to be appropriately responsive in all situations.

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  • KL

    Keren Leeds -14 years ago

    Older classes
    Thanks for your beautiful classes. I would like to download your archived classed onto my mp3 so I could listen ad infinitum, but I do not see a menu for them. I see only for recent videos.
    Thanks
    Keren

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  • RYMH

    Rabbi Yaakov M. Hammer -14 years ago

    Guests
    Where can I find the commentary that asserts that wives, being more intuitive than their husbands, are superior when judging guests?

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  • R

    rachel -14 years ago

    thank you
    thank you again, very good to hear

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  • CR

    chayah rabnkin -14 years ago

    rodah
    TODAH
    Hello, I was just asking my brother if he knew of any shiurim that I can listen to online at my own convenience and he said check out theyeshiva.net web site. I just clicked onto the home page picture and as soon as I saw that the shiur was dedicated in memory of Alta Shula and the others that have been taken away from us I felt like crying. It's in honor of her that i want to start a weekly shiur in my house with some friends. and when I saw that Rabbi Jacobson is giving the shiur I was really happy. So I just wanted to say THANK YOU Rabbi Jacobson and everyone else involved for making this SO accessible wherever we are. THANKS!!

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  • C

    chaya -14 years ago

    A genearal remark
    We were always taught that we don't present our Avos and other holy Tzadikim of the Torah through pictures which are just imaginary. This leaves an incorrect image of the personalities of the Torah.
    The Rebbe instructed this too to the teachers of our mosdos, to be careful how we present holy subjects.
    I hope you take this in consideration in the future.

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  • D

    Devorah -14 years ago

    Thank you
    Those of us on the other side of the world really appreciate your shiurim....

    Reply to this comment.Flag this comment.

  • CF

    Chaya F -14 years ago

    Your beautiful program
    I must express the deepest gratitude to the donors, R. Jacobson and the administrators of the website. First, I love your paintings, or photos of the weekly shiur, the music is amazing, even if you could have a few extra minutes at the beginning and the end of shiur, is wonderful. And of course the content is beyond anything I have ever learned. The learning sheets are outstanding. MAy G-d give you much brochos, and much, much, more without end. Thank you for bringing so much light into the world. And thank you for the MP3 download. It is a little piece of heaven for me to listen to on the train, at lunch, and elevates my day, my work, and indeed my very life.

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  • M

    Me -14 years ago


    Questions and Exercises

    1.Do you enjoy having guests?
    "Southern people like to do party more than cold climate aria population." This thesis has neither scientific value nor takes recession into consideration. It is pure post reory but you can take a map and check it with all-knows statistic.
    Is it stressful for you?
    To the point that only triple southern person can be effected. (My roots, origination and place of recent residence are southern)
    2.What is the primary cause of the stress in hospitality: the physical work or the mental pressure?
    I would rather look for reason in “three L’s”: lack of skills and experience, lack of resources (limits in time and money), and most of all lack of pleasure of having guests (one might not feel comfortable to be a host or may have misanthropic attitude).
    3.Do you find that your spouse is more hospitable than you are?
    Even if it were so, I wouldn’t less care of that.
    In what sense?
    Look: a couple is like two shoes of a same pair...
    Why do you think this is so?
    WE WERE MADE THAT WAY; IN G-D’S IMAGE!
    Does this bother you?
    Not at all: some like to be a pair of clown’s shoes, some prefer lawyer’s domain. For some barefoot is even better, others strongly gravitates to high boots with “Be aware of dog” on front door.
    4.What are the six explanations for the Talmudic observation that women are stinger than men toward guests?
    Sages differentiated women’s traits from men’s and realized that women’s ones are tougher to survive and her attitude toward guests is a result of her nature.
    Key words of those characteristics are follows: constant screening and surveying v. compartmenting and energy saving, multifunctioning v. specialist expertising and specific competency, hair splitting v. head shaving of generalization, internal orienting v. external, PC attributes v. System networking.
    Hopefully all six explanations are mostly metaphorical so my interpretation of them would not be very hurtful.
    5.Why did Abraham say ‘meal’ and Sarah say ‘flour?’
    It sounds like a dialog between a visionary and an implementer.

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  • AB

    Allan Black -14 years ago

    Nice Job
    The format of your video presentation along with the curriculum is very concise and easy to follow. The technology is easy to use and works quite well. Nice Job!

    I just wanted to share with you my thanks for your work and how your presentations have an impact on me throughout my work week and then onto Shabbos where I share your thoughts and continue to use the curriculum and other wrtings that you send out via e-mail for my family and guests.

    Thanks once again

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  • S

    StenceJeodync -14 years ago

    THANKS
    HEllo



    I just at present stumbled upon the web site and was totally blown away by how impressive it is!



    Indeed rather of just use the place i thought i would do my very best to chip in to the site. Opening with only posting and saying thanks everyone for your hard work. I for one value it.



    I as well want to chip in by uploading several documentaries and different things, i have a question in the assistance section if anyone would wish to aid me!

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  • M

    mendel -14 years ago

    question
    how does the maggid's explanation explain the soles/ kemach - mikahn shehaisha tzarah? She knows specifically what each individual guest needs and therefore why did she produce a lower quality flour? I missed something.
    Very nice shiur - all the explanations after the Ben Yehoyada were your own? Original and well done.

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  • ד

    דוב -14 years ago

    שאלה
    לפי כל חמשה ביאורים הראשונים הבנתי פשט דברי הגמרא, שלהאשה קשה עם אורחים, כי זה היפך טבעה וענינה וכדומה, כפי שנתבאר בשיעור היטב ולכן עיניה צרה באורחים כי זה מנגד לטבעה בכמה ענינים, ומזה מובן גם גודל הזכות שלה כי היא שוברת את טבעה. אבל לפי ביאור המגיד ממעזריטש, איך זה מסתדר עם המציאות שהאשה רוצה קמח והאיש רוצה סולת, כיון שצרה באורחים, דאם היא רוצה שהאורח יקבל מה שצריך באופן פנימי ואינדיבידואלי, מדוע דוקא קמח? ואולי גם זה ברוחניות מורה על השפעה נמוכה יותר מסולת, שזהו ענין הצמצום מצד נוקבא ומלכות. ויש לעיין

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  • A

    anonimous -14 years ago

    class
    thnks for the lesson
    well done!

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  • A

    Admin -14 years ago

    Class Description
    Abraham asks Sarah to prepare inferior flour for their guests; Sarah says she will prepare fine flour for them. From this, the Talmud derives that it is often more difficult for a woman to enjoy her guests than it is for her husband. This is strange, as it would seem that from the Abraham-Sarah story we would derive the exact opposite, that the man enjoys guests less than the woman?

    In this class, we will explore the answer of the Baal Shem Tov. We will also present six explanations for this enigmatic Talmudic observation about the relationship between women and guests, from a practical, emotional, psychological and spiritual point of view.

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  • A

    Admin -14 years ago

    source
    Source is: Talmud Bava Metziah 87a.

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  • R

    rachel -14 years ago

    source
    Love the article (and the joke)... Hope to use it as part of my class here in Montreal. Thank you. What is the source in Gemara for the issue of women having a harder time with guests than men?

    Reply to this comment.Flag this comment.

Rabbi YY Jacobson

  • November 2, 2009
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  • 15 Cheshvan 5770
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Dedicated by David and Eda Schottenstein in the loving memory of Alta Shula Swerdlov And in the merit of Yetta Alta Shula, "Aliya," Schottenstein

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