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Ruth #4: A Sword in the Beis Midrash -- Part 1

The Debate on the Jewish Identity of Ruth & King David.

1 hr 19 min

Class Summary:

A Sword in the Beis Midrash -- Part 1- The Debate on the Jewish Identity of Ruth & King David. Studying the book of Ruth, Class 4

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  • N

    ND -11 years ago

    qu
    4 great questions asked above....... please please answer! Thanks!




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    • A

      Anonymous -11 years ago

      Re: qu
      Next Class...

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  • S

    Shmuel -11 years ago

    Yibbum
    In the Maharsha's explanation of the exchange between Ploni (Tov) and Boaz, he mentions that Boaz should go ahead as he would not have children as he was old. Wouldn't that defeat the perpose of Yibbum? In other words are the laws of Yibbum applicable to someone who can't have children (aside from the issues of such a man marrying in the first place)? Thanks

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  • L

    leah -12 years ago

    Question on Megillat Ruth
    Thank you Rabbi Jacobson for the amazing, thought provoking class.

    I am teaching Megillat Ruth.  During the 4th lesson after discussing  Moavite- referring to a male and not a female, a female can marry into the Jewish nation,   We learned the resources, Why they can't marry?

    Because they did not greet you with bread and water,  indicative of the Moavite character traits, I was asked this question;  Why does the Torah allow the woman to  marry into the Jewish people, when it is the woman who transmits Judaism to the family?  

    I look forward to your response.

    Do you answer this in the next classes?

    Hashem has a plan for the seed of Moshiach to be born. The nation of Moav was saved for this purpose, for Ruth?




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  • R

    Rina -12 years ago

    Rashi
    Rabbi Jacobson! Your shiurim are great!! I have one question. Why does Rashi write about the Amoni and not the Moavi?  Wouldn't it be more appopriate to give the example of the Moavi. or at least to write both?

    Rina

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  • O

    ock -12 years ago

    parsha
    thank you, would be great if parsha could be posted a bit earlier on in the week

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  • O

    ock -12 years ago

    parsha
    rabbi jacobson, i need my weekly parsha dosage, do you not have any shiurim by you on emor?

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    • A

      Anonymous -12 years ago

      Re: parsha
      Yes we will post today ay"h.

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  • M

    michael -12 years ago

    jewish??
    rabbi jacobson,



    why does the subject of dovids jewish heritage rely only on his fathers family and lineage. i thought if someones mother is jewish that makes them jewish as well no mater where the father comes from? the whole argument could have been put to rest by saying that dovids mother was jewish so there is no problem



    sorry if this has been answered already. thanks



    michael

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  • A

    Anonymous -12 years ago

    Ploni Almoni, Boaz, and Leverite Marriage
    Dear Rabbi Jacobson, Thank you so much for the wonderful classes on Megilat Ruth. One question I had which you may have answered already, but, when Ploni Almoni (who ever he is?) is one of the brothers of Eli Melach refuses to marry Ruth, why isn't one of his brothers the next of kin. I would think that Boaz would have to go to each of the brothers first before he could safely take on Ruth in the Pseudo Leverite Marriage. My understanding is the only Torah Halachic Leverite Marriage would be Brother to Sister-in-Law if the Brother dies without children. Some idea I thought of, maybe they aren't alive? Or is Ploni Almoni a composite figure that represents all the brothers? I don't know if this is an important factor in the scheme of story but I wondered anyway. Thank you very much.

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    • A

      Anonymous -12 years ago

      Re: Ploni Almoni, Boaz, and Leverite Marriage
      The other brothers have died. Elimelech, we know, was dead. Boaz's father was also apparently not living. Same with the father of Naomi, it seems. (In class 4 I explained one opinion that Naomi inherited the field from her father after his passing.)Thus, the only one living was Peloni Almoni, whose name by the way was Tov, according to many commentators.

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      • A

        Anonymous -12 years ago

        Re: Ploni Almoni, Boaz, and Leverite Marriage
        Thank you.

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  • SC

    Sam C -12 years ago

    Rabbi Jacobson
    This Chag I would like to wish you to find the depth in torah to engage in it at a level where you will be able to percieve its uniqeness and essence as vital and critical to you as oxygen is to your life and as blood circulation is to your body. May you internalize its teachings, with happiness and ultimate content in every aspect of your life. Chag Sameach...

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  • S

    Sam -12 years ago

    ploni almoni
    According to the sequence of events Boaz asked the scholars to determine Ruth's status BEFORE he asked ploni almoni if he wants to marry her so ploni already knew what they answered "amoni vlo amonis" so why is he still bothered by it. Also kol kvuda bas melech ostensibly applies to a Jewess not to a shiksa unless the gemara is telling us here that it applies to a shiksa too....

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    • A

      Anonymous -12 years ago

      Re: ploni almoni
      1. Great question: Why did Peloni Almoni not accept the verdict issued forth by Boaz and the beis din? Especially when our sages tell us that Boaz was the judge of the people at the time and he was the Gadol Hador (Bava Basra 91b)?! I will answer this in class 5.

      2. The Gemarah is describing the nature of women in general, all women, not only Jewish. By nature is a women is more modest, refined, intimate, and internal. One can see this when observing even very young girls relative to very young boys. There is a "penimah," a penemeyus, a woman naturally gravitates to, even when she is on the outside. (Of course, as with every quality, it can be distorted, ignored and repressed.)

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  • Y

    Yechiel -12 years ago

    Ruth
    Thank you for the class. Q: Did u address why Boaz wasnt immediately forth coming with kindness and hospitality to his cousin and her daughter in-law the moment they arrived in the Holy Land? Its a question that has been bothering me since the end of the first chapter.

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    • A

      Anonymous -12 years ago

      Re: Ruth
      The commentators explain that both Naomi and Ruth did not want to accept charity from anyone. Generally, our sages point out, that tzaddikim dislike taking favors and charity from people, even relatives. They want to support themselves. Leket, on the other hand, is not Tzedakah, coming from the kindness of the giver. It is an obligation on the owner of the field to leave it for the poor. That is why Naomi and Ruth decided to go with the path of gleaning the "leket."

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  • A

    Anonymous -12 years ago

    Class #4
    B"H Great class Rabbi, I have a question, why was not the complete Halitzah performed as in Devarim 25 when it states that if redeemer refuses his family will be known in the House of the Sole or Unshod. What is the deeper meaning of this? and the taking off the sandal was performed but the spit of face was not performed by Ruth to the unnamed redeemer? Again, thank you for a great class.

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    • A

      Anonymous -12 years ago

      Re: Class #4
      According to Torah law, Yebum and hence Chalitzah only applies to a brother in law. Boaz and his uncle were not brothers in law of Ruth. So there was no need for Chalitzah at all. He was not bound up to Ruth legally in any way.



      It was just the custom--not the law--of the time that a relative marry the childless widow, as the Ramban explains in Vayeishev in the story of Yehudah and Tamar. Which is why Ruth wanted to marry Boaz. But, again, this was not a legal obligation.



      [The Maharsha in Yevamos 76b does state a novel idea: that marrying a relative did have the halachik status of Yebum and hence it was perceived that Boaz may marry even a Moavite in order to fulfill the mitzvah of Yebum. This would mean that Chalitzah was required. But this is a difficult idea to understand, and most commentators do not agree.]



      The removal of the shoe in Ruth ch. 4 has nothing to do with Chalitzah, it has to do with Boaz acquiring the legal rights from his uncle, Peloni Almoni, to redeem the fields of Naomi and Ruth. As the pasuk points out, that the method they used at the time for "kinyan" was the passing of a shoe. (We will discuss this in future classes.) Do not confuse this with Chalitzah. In fact, according to many opinions it was Boaz who removed his shoe, not Peloni Almoni.



      I did see however in Zohar Chadash Ruth that the removal of the show did have to do with Chalitzah. This may have been a symbolic act, not a legal act of Chalitzah [Or maybe it follows the above view of the Maharasha that there was need for Chalitzah. Yet it is very difficult to impose on these pesukim the idea that there a process of Chalitzah here.]

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  • I

    Info -12 years ago

    Ruth
    נעמי from where did she come from, and how did ruth marry her sons with moavite women?

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    • A

      Anonymous -12 years ago

      Re: Ruth
      Naomi came from Beit Lechem. Her father was a brother of Elimelech, they were children of Nachson ben Aminadav. The family lived in Beis Lechem, which was the region of the tribe of Yehudah.



      Some commentators argue that the two women, Ruth and Arpah, converted. Yet the literal reading indicates that they did not convert (see Malbim to Ruth chapter 1). This demonstrates the downfall of the family, of Elimelech and his two sons. It may be that Naomi could do little to stop it. According to the Zohar (Zohat Chadash Rus), they did convert, but it was unclear if it was sincere. When Arpah left, it proved retroactively that her conversion was insincere. Ruth, on the other hand, demonstrated that her conversion was authentic.

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      • 1MQ

        1 More question -12 years ago

        Amon
        Lot had another daughter from where עמון was born, does this have anything to do with this story, I recall a chazal saying שתי פרידות טובות one is ruth but who is the second ?

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        • A

          Anonymous -12 years ago

          Re: Amon
          Yes. Shlomo Hamelech married Naamah, a convert of Amov. She gave birth to Rechavam who continued the dynasty of David after the passing of Shlomo. Moshiach will come from Rechavam, meaning from Naamah. I will quote here below some fascinating ideas about Naamah in the original Hebrew:




          "וּרְחַבְעָם בֶּן שְׁלֹמֹה מָלַךְ בִּיהוּדָה בֶּן אַרְבָּעִים וְאַחַת שָׁנָה רְחַבְעָם בְּמָלְכוֹ וּשֲׁבַע עֶשְׂרֵה שָׁנָה מָלַךְ בִּירוּשָׁלִַם הָעִיר אֲשֶׁר בָּחַר יְקֹוָק לָשׂוּם אֶת שְׁמוֹ שָׁם מִכֹּל שִׁבְטֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל וְשֵׁם אִמּוֹ נַעֲמָה הָעַמֹּנִית" (מלכים א יד,כא). : "ואמר ר' חייא בר אבא אמר ר' יהושע בן קרחה: לעולם יקדים אדם לדבר מצוה, שבשביל לילה אחת שקדמתה בכירה לצעירה, קדמתה ארבע דורות לישראל: עובד, ישי, ודוד, ושלמה, ואילו צעירה עד רחבעם, דכתיב: (מלכים א יד) ושם אמו נעמה העמונית" (בבא קמא לח, ע"ב) בהערכתה דמותה של נעמה זו כותבים הרד"ק ורלב"ג שהיא היתה סיבת חטאו של רחבעם, שכתוב עליו שבימיו, יהודה עשו הרע בעיני ה'. לעומתם רמ"ע מפאנו כותב שהיתה צדקת: "צא ולמד מרות המואביה שלא נתקבלה אלא בשעת עניה ומרודיה של נעמי ואז כתיב ורות דבקה בה דוקא לא בשלותה כי המר שדי לי מאד וכן מאלף נשים שגייר שלמה לא נתקבלה מכולן להעמיד ממלכת ישראל אלא נעמה העמונית שנשאת לו כשהיה בדלי דלות, ולא חזר למלכותו אלא בזכותה, ונמצא כתוב באגדה שאותה טבעת ששם המפורש חקוק עליה ונפתה שלמה לאשמדאי ונתנה לו כדאיתא במסכת גיטין, שהשליכה לים הגדול. סוף דבר זימן הקב"ה דג אחד ובלע אותה, ושלש שנים נטרד שלמה בעניותו על שעבר ג` לאוין לא ירבה לו נשים וסוסים וזהב ונכשל בכולן ונטרפה דעתו באובדן הטבעת, עד שריחם עליו הקב"ה ונזדמן לפני מלך בני עמון ונעשה לו מלצר, ראתהו נעמה בתו וחשקה בו ואביה הגלה את שניהם למדבר שמם למען ימותו מיתת עצמם וידו אל תהיה בם, וזימנם הקב"ה לשפת הים, ואותו הדג עלה לגורלם ומידה של נעמה קבל שלמה תנחומין שנתנה לו הטבעת בקריעת הדג, ותחי רוחו, ומנדעיה עליה יתוב, ואין ספק שלא החמיץ שלמה מצוה רבתי הבאה לידו, אלא תכף ומיד שחזר ונשתפה שם גייר אותה, ועדיין היו שניהם עניים מרודים, וזכתה יותר מרות שנקראת אם המלך סתם כדאיתא בפרק הספינה, ונעמה היא אם המשיח לדעת חז"ל, ושמה יעיד על נועם ה` אלהינו כשם שנקראת רות על שם שיצא ממנה דוד שרוהו להקב"ה בשירות ותשבחות". ((ספר עשרה מאמרות - מאמר אם כל חי - חלק ג סימן ט).


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          • TY

            Thank You -12 years ago

            Re: Amon
            Amazing your quick and full response may hashem bless you with all the best, your lessons are really geshmak and zaftig as they say in yiddish and I share it with others too! Thanks

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  • C

    chava -12 years ago

    class #2
    B"H

    Rabbi, first of all your Ruth classes are the greatest!! thank you!!

    My question...Rauth and Naomi went back to Betlehem on nissan 15th...were the jews allowed to do the harvesting for the korban omer that day (being hag, pesaj) ?? were the law different at that time, were there sacrifices in the temple on shabat?? when did this change?? thank you!!

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    • A

      Anonymous -12 years ago

      Re: class #2
      They harvested at night. In Eretz Yisroel the Passover holiday is one day, followed by Chol Hamoed. So at the night following the first day, they can harvest.

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Rabbi YY Jacobson

  • June 2, 2011
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  • 29 Iyyar 5771
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Dedicated by David and Eda Schottenstein In the loving memory of Alta Shula Swerdlov And in honor of their daughter Yetta Alta Shula, "Aliyah" Schottenstein

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