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Joseph and Judah: Self-Expression Vs. Self-Transcendence

Torah Or Maamar Vayigash: Two Roads Diverged in the Woods of History: The Path of Enlightenment & the Path of Surrender. Which One Will Triumph?

1 hr 6 min

Class Summary:

Joseph and Judah: Self-Expression Vs. Self-Transcendence- Torah Or Maamar Vayigash: Two Roads Diverged in the Woods of History: The Path of Enlightenment & the Path of Surrender. Which One Will Triumph?

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  • C

    Chatzkel -12 years ago

    Shorter but more powerful
    The shorter, more powerful version of the mayseh is this - not that the Mosheleh was a drunkard, not that the man had children, not even that he was an orphan; he was a simple, unlearned Jew, an am ha'aretz, but that his simple explanation to his wife, "I'm an ignorant man, I have no learning, but I know that the Aybishter sent us to the land of Egypt and we were enslaved and now we're free and it was all His will and we must now remember that we're all princes and princesses."  This heartfelt cry of the knowledge of the bitterness of slavery and the promise of redemption was worth more than all of the kavannot and secret knowledge that the Barditchever Rav had.

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  • A

    Amazing -12 years ago

    what an incredible story

    Thank you for sharing, the power of the Jew, even in the depth of despair and to come out with the positive in everything.

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  • M

    Marvin -12 years ago

    Horrible Story
    it doesn't sound that the alcoholic in your story recovered. he continued to drink at the seder, and it seemed his wife did not have the capacity to make the proper choice of protecting the children from his behavior. in your story she continued and seemed to encourage him to drink. she should have not allowed wine to be served at the table to an her alcoholic husband.

    it was no mitzvah she was providing, and it was a dis service to her children. this is the story of a broken man, breaking apart his family. no passover was experienced here. showing up to the table drunk from

    the night before, and continuing to drink wine is not a celebration. it is a sad story that could have a happy ending, but this tale ends unresolved.

    i have known alcoholics who have cleaned up their lives. pouring the wine at a seder to an alcoholic is not a way to celebrate the passover. an alcoholic is not free, that person is  still a slave. nothing is more important to an alcoholic than the next drink.

    not his wife, children, a passover sedar, and even his relationship with God. your story makes it sound acceptable that the father could call a seder to his holy children, and as long as there is a seder  everything will be all right. this is not the case here. the experience of the seder was destroyed, and

    potentially this man's life is on the verge of a path of self destruction.

    just wishing that he had a passover seder like someone else who was not drinking is not enough to address the real issue of this family's situation. his wife should have taken him to a doctor/hospital for help the morning of pasover, the night after he drank himself nearly to death. propping him up

    at the dinner table was foolish on her part, and setting a poor example of how to treat a person if they are ever act this way. the moral here is, the seder  must go on. the real moral should be: when a man needs help, do what can to provide that assistance to the best of your ability. the children are blameless.

    the wife is part of the problem, and the husband is sick (alcoholism is a disease) and needs help. not a fake sedar. if he had been hit by a car, and had a broken leg should he stay at the seder table bleeding? sometimes we bleed on the outside, other times on the inside.

    is there an ending to this story, or does it stop with the father passing out at the seder?

    what impact did this have on the children?

    how can a marriage survive this kind of stress?

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  • R

    Robert -12 years ago

    Drunkard's Seder
    I hated this story. Have heard many a old drunkard babbling. It's not a pretty sight. This one wakes up his children to babble, then procedes to chug a lug 4 cups of wine! So bad for children to watch in horror the behavior of an alcoholic parent. This might make children want to avoid The Seder forever, G-d forbid. This is one story I'll never tell, as it seems to me to be loshon hara.

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  • M

    Malka -12 years ago

    2 holy sederim
    What a beautiful story within a story--I hope that each one of us can also connect to Hashem like that during our sederim this year--and then for sure we'll be out of this galus!

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  • RT

    Robbie Tombosky -13 years ago

    Great Resource
    Very much enjoyed being able to log on and attend such a high quality shiur in Torah Ohr... at my convenience, early in the morning, and in the privacy of my own home! So glad to see the Yeshiva.net succeeding and expanding its offerings... Thanks!

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  • YK

    yosef Kutner -13 years ago

    I have learned and enjoyed R YY Jacobsen for a long time. Now I have another enjoyable source Thank you R Paltiel ( Do you have a Phila conection?)

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  • YM

    Yiddishe Mama -13 years ago

    I gained -- thank you!
    Very interesting class, and I enjoyed it. Now I feel ready to hear the lehning on Shabbos. Please keep up the great classes.

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Yossi Paltiel

  • December 7, 2010
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  • 30 Kislev 5771
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Dedicated by "THE CHANIN FUND" In honor of Sholom DovBer Goldfarbon the occasion of his upshernish2 Teves

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